Dana Marie

Hi everybody, welcome back to the Empower to Advocate podcast. This is Dana Marie. I am joined by Michelle and our super special guest today, James Norris. James, we are so excited to have you.

James Norris

Thank you so much for having me, I really appreciate it.

Dana Marie

We appreciate you being here. So I know James from way back in high school, we met when I was playing basketball and James was the statistician for our basketball team. I should note that we were a very good basketball team. So he was a very good statistician. We were a winning team back then. So that's how James and I met in high school. He had ended up going to prom actually

James Norris

Very good.

Thank you

Right.

Dana Marie

with one of my best friends to this day as well. So we have a couple of connections and then one our separate ways. And then a few years later reconnected when James became good friends with my cousin Frankie, who, yeah, who passed away in 2008, wow, a long time ago after a valiant fight with leukemia. But James and Frankie met through a mutual friend, Jason, who we might talk about today.

Cool.

Dana Marie

we talk about them.

James Norris

Yeah, just a little bit. Don't have him on, he won't stop talking.

Dana Marie

So, no, noted, noted. So yeah, so that's how we kind of reconnected and now James is doing amazing things, big things, so many things. I almost complained about being busy earlier and then I said, I'm gonna stop complaining because I know you are busy. James is the founder of Handicapable Fitness and is also the author of the children's book, Feeling Left Out. And if I remember, correctly. It is the first in a four-part series. Yeah, and just just came out. So super excited for feeling left out, but also really excited for parts two, three, and four. So with all of that, I am actually going to throw it to James, and he's going to introduce himself a little bit.

James Norris

Yes, you're right.

Well, thank you ladies for the introduction. The check is in the mail. As Dana Marie said, I'm James Norris and the founder of Handi capable Fitness. I myself have cerebral palsy to just give you a quick elevator pitches to how that all came to be. I was born premature, but then at the age of about one and a half went in for hernia operation. During that operation, the mass came off my face, which led my vocal cords to swell and causing my brain to be without air

The doctors didn't say anything to my parents at the time and my parents didn't think anything of it because I was so premature. And then as time went on, they realized that I wasn't hitting certain milestones. So then that's when they called children's booked an appointment and shortly thereafter that's when they diagnosed me with the cerebral palsy. Fast forward. You know, I always tell people that my parents never treated me any different. In fact, I think that they never treated me differently.

They held me to a higher standard because they never wanted me to use my cerebral palsy as a crutch. And I grew up playing Challenger Sports, which were amazing, but there was something else there. I'm super competitive and Challenger Sports is amazing, but what I didn't like about it was everybody, or it all ended in a tie. And I'm like, no, my team won five to four. You guys lost. That's about it.

So I wanted to figure out a way to get those competitive juices out and be around the sports that I grew up loving so much. So I ended up going to broadcasting school where I worked in radio for about 7 years here in Boston and then also in California. Then I was laid off, fell into a depression and that's how this whole fitness journey started to come about. And that's how handicapped fitness was born. So

I will let you guys jump in with any questions that you have. I'm an open book, so don't be shy.

Michelle She Her

Cool. Yeah. So I actually follow you on Instagram from, um, you were on a panel with, um, coach justice, uh, Williams. Um, I want to say it was a couple of years ago and ever since, yeah, yep, yep. So justice is one of my friends now. And, um, I do some work with him with, um, queer Jim pop up and whatnot. So, but I was first introduced to you through that panel. So I've been following

James Norris

Yes.

James Norris

Fitness 4 All bodies.

Michelle She Her

it, you know, all the information in the posts and things that you put out there. So yeah, it's been great.

James Norris

Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Dana Marie

So James, I guess my first question is, let's stick with handicapable fitness. What does, like Michelle said, we all probably follow you and we see sort of your videos, we see your motivational tips and so on and so forth. But what does your day-to-day look like with handicapable fitness? You had mentioned to me earlier, I think we were offline when you mentioned working with a young person who also had CP. But what does your day-to-day with handicapable fitness actually look like?

James Norris

So it's posting on social media, then it's doing mentorship calls or in-person, in-person mentorship visits or however it is that you wanna say that. There was one little boy that his parents drive him from Connecticut once a month to meet me at the gym so that we can work out together. Then we have lunch and basically the whole premise behind that is it's getting him up, getting him active and getting him moving, but he's also seeing somebody, a bigger version of himself to say, hey, listen, these are the talents you've been given. Here's how we're going to pull it out. And it's great for the parents too, because now they see somebody that's a little down the highway, so to speak, that has gone through this journey, and they kind of know the twists and turns as to what to expect and that sort of thing. And then the other stuff that I do, it's constantly meeting with education, you know, professionals, sponsors for what we do with handicapped fitness, fitness professionals, pretty much the whole nine yards because without those sponsorship dollars and and all of the things, our mission wouldn't be able to exist and we wouldn't be able to impact the community as we aim to do. So.

Dana Marie

And don't be shy. Tell us the ways that handy capable fitness has been able to impact the community because we've been following along with that as well.

James Norris

Well, we, we, we, what we do is we give out grants for gym memberships, fitness equipment or travel grants to people that have physical disabilities so that they can get up, get active and get moving. However, it is that they, they, that they deem possible. So we, we've given grants for people to get wheelchairs. We paid for somebody a travel grant for somebody to go surfing. There's a, there's a young. in Connecticut, he was nationally ranked. He did cross country in his wheelchair. We helped him get a new race chair. And then nobody knows this yet, but I'll say it here. On Thursday, we are going to Essex Tech to surprise a young student with a thousand dollar check so that she can get a new wheelchair because she wants to do wheelchair BMX. So she wants to bring her chair to the skate park and do flips and whatever else.

Michelle

amazing.

James Norris

So we are in the process of doing that.

Dana Marie

That's amazing. That's amazing. So as long as I've known you obviously since high school, I know that you're a sports fanatic, right? You're a sports fan. You're an athletics fanatic. But how has, I guess my question is, how has this type of movement changed your life, right? So it's different than sports, right? You mentioned challenger sports. But what you're doing now is different and a different kind of fitness space. How has strength training?

James Norris

Just a little bit.

Dana Marie

you know, being in the gym, how has that changed things for you?

James Norris

It's honestly given my life purpose. So often we go through life and we ask ourselves, what is the purpose? What is our why? And I can honestly say that losing my job in the way that I did and going through that depression is actually the biggest blessing that could ever happen to me because that's when I really started to eat unhealthy, gained a bunch of weight. Then I came back here and I didn't know anything about health or fitness

But I knew something needed to change, right? And then that is when I got into fitness and I started to do everything I was doing, it was all new to me. It wasn't like I went in for a tackle when I was playing football in high school and broke my neck, right? And now all of a sudden I have to learn to live life over again. No, this is, CP is all I've ever known. So me doing everything I was doing

gave my life purpose and I found my identity after I lost it in radio.

Michelle

really powerful, the power of movement and the impact it can have on folks.

James Norris

I tell people all the time, you know, so often we get into it because we want to lose weight. We want to get that six pack. We want to be that size to put on that muscle, whatever it is. But and all that stuff is great if that's what you end up achieving. But it's more now. So the mental side of things, and especially doing what I do with the young people that I have the privilege to help. It's holding a mirror up in front of their face and saying, Hey, you know,

Yes, you have cerebral palsy, yes, you have spina bifida, or you have this said challenge, but that said challenge doesn't need to define you. It can actually be your superpower if you choose to look at it that way.

Michelle She Her

What are some of the

ways that folks who are in the fitness space or gym owners or even just fitness coaches can make their spaces more accessible to folks with a variety of physical disabilities.

James Norris

You know what, that's a really good question because I don't think that there's a straightforward answer all the way through. But what I would say is if somebody, if somebody rolls into your gym or walks into your gym and they have a walk or crutches or you know whatever it is a wheelchair. You know, go up and introduce yourself to them, make them feel comfortable because here's the thing right anytime somebody goes and starts a fitness journey. It's going to be uncomfortable because they're going to see all the people.

that are in shape and you know that have that dream body that they're looking for they're gonna be intimidated, but then if You have you know a disability on top of that. It's extra scary So if you go up and you engage them in conversation help them to feel welcome You know go up and ask them if they need help opening that door if they need help grabbing their weights people will tell you what they want and what they don't but don't have that fear of

What if I go up to them and they bite my head off?

because that just makes them feel segregated anyway.

Dana Marie

for sure. So Michelle and I work with a lot of parents of kids, three-year-olds, four-year-olds, pre-K, all the way up to 21, 22-year-olds, and transition programs post-secondary. So I'm gonna build off of Michelle's question and ask you, as it relates to school, right? Physical education, athletics, how can schools in school districts and athletic departments in schools, not just high school, but in the younger grades as well, how can they make spaces, movement spaces more accessible for kids.

James Norris

I honestly would love to see, because there's so many other, there's so many wheelchair sports now. And, you know, back when we were growing up, it was predominantly basketball and baseball, which were great, but now they have wheelchair football, they have wheelchair rugby. You know, I would say just as much as we put a girl's team out there or a boy's team out there, put a wheelchair community team together. Even if you have to pull,

in people from different communities as long as it's that because that's what sports is right it's you know a lot of us aren't going to go to the WNBA or or the NBA or whatever but it's that community you talked about it earlier a lot of those girls that you met on that team you're still good friends with today and it's all about building that community so just letting people know the resources like a handy capable fitness are out there providing the grants

that they can get the wheelchairs, they can get the equipment, so it's not all on the school system and we can circumvent that red tape. Because you're gonna hear the school system say, oh, we don't have money for that. So if you go to these other organizations and can work your way around that, then that takes the excuse out of their mouth to say, okay, well, we really don't have the means to do so.

Dana Marie

That's a good one

That's such a good point because I think a lot of times what happens is parents, community members, even people who work in school, school district don't even know what questions to ask, right? So it's not even that we're saying that they're not providing resources or they're not making their space accessible. A lot of times it's quite literally they don't even know where to start and they don't even know. Yeah.

James Norris

They simply just don't know. You know, I mean, and the thing is, you know, a lot of this equipment is, you know, for the automatic doors, they can be so much money. But again, in a gym setting, if I don't have to ask somebody to open a door for me, that takes one last thing for me to feel awkward about, like, all eyes are on me.

Michelle

Yeah.

James Norris

because I can just hit the button. But then so that's also an important thing. Making sure, because there's the ADA code, but it doesn't as good as it is, it doesn't hit all across the board. It's virtually impossible to do that because I may use a wheelchair, but a visually impaired person might have different needs. But if we come together and we have these conversations with the disabilities

mission and people that are boots on the ground, then we can kind of get a good idea of what to do and then attack it that way.

Michelle

Yeah, that's great. What for folks who might be listening, who might not be familiar with the ADA code, what are some of the things that are included in that law that makes spaces more accessible for folks?

James Norris

Okay, so I know it's been a while since I looked at it, but this just gives me a reason to look at it more. But I know like for instance, the pitch on a ramp needs to be at a certain angle. And then if you're crossing the street, because I didn't notice it till I was going over in my chair one day and I asked the building inspector what this was about, if you see on the crosswalk,

yellow strips that have the bumps on them, that is so that the visually impaired person can feel where they're at and they can get an idea. But again, it's always changing. And I talk to handicapped people all the time and they get mad because they might go some place and it's not 100% what they need. And I try to tell them to take a step back.

frustration. But at the same time, if you go to the building inspector or you go to that owner of the business and you start screaming at them, they're just going to shut down. Right? So it goes back to an old saying, you get more with honey than you do vinegar. So if you approach them and you're like, hey, you know, I just noticed that the pitch on the ramp wasn't wide enough or there was something

Work on getting that fixed or something I just want to make you aware there more app to do it and they're more have to go out of their way above and beyond. To do that because of that approach that you took.

Dana Marie

just made me think of something else too, is where we work mostly with young people, right? And their families, it's hearing you say that makes me think like it's just as important to teach young people with disabilities how to advocate for themselves as well, right? Because quite frankly, not every space you're gonna go into is gonna be A-D-A compliant, right? Not every space that you go into is going to be made for you. And one of the best things

James Norris

100%

Dana Marie

we can do for young people as they learn how to sort of navigate the world. It's also to give them the tools to navigate and advocate for themselves, like you just said, like how to ask for the things that they need. Should they have to? Of course not, right? But.

James Norris

But you know what, that's gonna happen. And I tell the parents that I work with all the time, I said, you know, as much as you wanna be there for your child, you know, obviously don't want them to get hurt, you don't want them to really damage themselves. But it's so important to let them fail, let them kind of fall on their face, so to speak, not in the literal sense, but, you know, it's during those times where things weren't 100% right

And my parents weren't around, or my teachers weren't around, and I'm like, okay, how can I figure this out? How can I ask for the help that I need? So I really love that point. And I think it's so important because the parents, the caregivers, the teachers, they're not always going to be there. And if we're always doing things for the child, they're never going to learn those important skills that just life skills that everybody needs.

Dana Marie

Such a good point.

Michelle She Her

Yeah, I think that often, especially as educators and as caregivers, our first instinct is to just take care of and shelter and protect. And that's how we feel we're being caring. But I do see this often for kids in elementary school, and then they go to middle school, and the middle school teachers still feel like they need to do all the things. And then the kids get up to high school, and the high school isn't necessarily like that.

And the kids really have a hard time with that transition because it's they're all of a sudden going from this overprotective really comforting, they're going to do all the things for me to know you do it.

James Norris

Mm-hmm. I was, I'm living proof of that. That was, that was me. I mean, if you can ask Dana Marie, you know, I am not, I'm not the person that I was, you know, back then. None of us are really, but at the same time, what I mean by that was I was so shy. I wouldn't speak up for myself. You know, if I needed something, I wouldn't ask for it.

Dana Marie

Yeah.

me either, thank god, yeah.

James Norris

You know, if you talk to me, I would talk to you back, but I'm not gonna go out of my way to talk to you because I was so shy because I was coddled all the way through school and I never really had to do those things for myself. It wasn't until, you know, I got into high school and I was punching the face with the reality of, hey, you know, you're gonna have to use a power chair because there's only a certain amount of time that you have to get between classes.

late, then they're going to hold your feet to the fire just like everybody else.

Dana Marie

That's a really good segue. So let's talk about feeling left out. Inspiration for it, I mean, I've read it. I have it here. If folks haven't got it yet, go get it. Let's start there. But what's the inspiration behind it? I know some of the folks that you talk about in the dedication in the beginning, but just for people listening. At what point did you wake up and say, I'm doing all these amazing fitness things. I run my own business.

so busy and then I think I'm also gonna write a book.

James Norris

You know what? Well, to answer your question, it was never, I never really set out to write the book, honestly. It was one of those things during the pandemic. I was bored out of my mind just like we all were. And I brought my laptop out one day and just started writing. And I almost didn't even save the script to it. But I said, you know what? I think I'm going to save this just in case it was on my desktop.

somebody and they said, hey, I think we can turn this into a book. And that's how that all came to be. But the story itself, it's loosely based on my life. So as a child, because I grew up in the early part of my childhood in Reading, at Barrow's Elementary School, I was outside. I saw the kids running around playing. I realized I couldn't do that. And then one of my classmates sees me.

and he sees me start to cry, but then he has that internal dialogue with himself of what do I do? Do I go up and talk to him? What if he bites my head off? What if, you know, all these questions? Well, he finally musters up the courage to go and introduce himself and talk to me, ask me what's wrong. One thing led to another. He's like, what's going on? And I said, I have to use this wheelchair. And he goes, what are you talking about? He goes, you drive a car around school horn that you get to scare the teachers. They start laughing and build that commonality and then they go play a game, then everybody wants to play with Jimmy. So for the first time, he finally feels like a cool kid and he wants people to know the things that make us different are actually the things that make us awesome and those things can be our superpowers if we choose to look at them that way.

They're going to have to get the book if they want to know the rest. I mean, yeah.

Michelle

Awesome.

Dana Marie

I was just going to say, I think as I was reading, I thought to myself, this is a really important book obviously for kids to read, kids with disabilities and kids without, right? Because we focus a lot and we talk a lot to parents and caregivers who have children, their own children with disabilities. But I think that it's really important that kids both with and without disabilities read the book. But also as I was reading, I was thinking to myself, it's really important that

work with with kids in school, right? Because the adults that work with kids in school are the ones helping them navigate those social situations, right? Helping them navigate the playground, which is what it is, and the lunchroom and conversations in class and so on and so forth. So I think it's also, it is a children's book, it is geared towards children, but as an educator and as somebody now working with parents and caregivers, I also, there are a lot of nuggets

James Norris

Yeah, exactly.

Dana Marie

Like you said, we don't want to coddle kids, but we are the ones helping them navigate these situations with their peers and with their friends and their classmates.

James Norris

Exactly. You know, and I mean, let's face it, to be honest with you, you know, you guys as the educators, you guys are focusing on, okay, I brought 25 kids out to recess, do I have 25 kids here? Like, is somebody like beating somebody over the head, you know, like what's going on? You know, so you guys have a lot to focus on there. You gotta focus on the clock, okay, it's time to get back, whatever it is, you know, and it's, again,

Dana Marie

Oh, that is the truth.

James Norris

much that you guys are doing it intentionally, but it's just one of those things unless it's in front of your face, you're not really paying attention to it.

Dana Marie

So sure. You talk, and we obviously don't need to share who these people, their names. I happen to know them, obviously. But you talk in your dedication about, I should say, I know one of them, about some teachers, right? Some teachers, some paraeducators who really had a big impact in your life in school, both in elementary school, in middle school, actually, and in high school. Some amazing educators. But I guess my question is, if you could go back,

James Norris

Yeah.

Dana Marie

Or if you are speaking to educators now today in 2023, what sort of, what tips would you give them? What are some things that you maybe wish had happened for you and didn't? Or things that if you could go back, you would help adults navigate a situation maybe a different way?

James Norris

I think, you know what, I was very fortunate because, as you said, you know, some of the people that are in the book. And I feel that those people really shaped me the way who I am today, right? You know, even though I'm not per se an educator, I've taken a lot of what they've taught me and a lot of my experiences with them, and I've passed it on to other people. So again, we don't have to do anything

We don't have to reinvent the wheel. We just have to look and say to ourselves, okay, if X, Y, or Z was happening to my loved one or if I saw my loved one over here or whatever or myself, how would I want to be treated in that moment? Ask yourself that question and then whatever the response is, go ahead, take that action and do it. And really just as educators, because the people that are mentioned in the book, they

They really went above and beyond and left a footprint on my heart. And they did that because they were true genuine people. They didn't clock in at 745 and clock out at, you know, 215. If I needed extra help, if I needed somebody to talk to, because things were, you know, crazy at home or whatever the case may be. Guess what? They were there. They also pushed me out of my comfort zone. You know,

I'll tell this story. I wasn't going to go to prom. I was like, absolutely not. Then, Rana Thur, God bless her. She's amazing. We bickered back and forth for a whole year, like an old married couple. You're going to prom. No, I'm not going. I have sports to watch. We went back and forth, back and forth. Well, as he said, I ended up going. So I guess we won't go back and forth. But I am the person that I am. today because those people took the time and the effort to believe in me before I believed in myself.

Dana Marie

Amazing.

Michelle She Her

Yeah, I mean, educators can make such a huge impact on young people, you know.

James Norris

I think especially nowadays where we don't know what the family dynamics look like at home. So oftentimes we can be that parental or educators can be that parental figure in somebody's life that keeps them going and shows that, hey, your life actually does matter.

Michelle

for sure. And I think going back to, you know, the book, it's so important for young people to see themselves like you were talking about earlier when we first started talking about more of the fitness piece of things, the to see for young people to see themselves reflected in the people that are writing books that are helping them work out in the gym, you know,

so that they can see, oh yeah, this is possible for me. I can do this, right?

James Norris Exactly. And you know what, when you said that, it brought up something else in my mind, a big thing that's going on now, and they're correcting it. But a lot of what's gone on in Hollywood, if there's somebody that, let's say, has a spinal cord injury, they're going out and they're getting an able-bodied person to play that role. And the consensus in the handicapal community is, hey, that's great that this person is able to play that, but why wouldn't you actually

role to somebody that has a spinal cord injury. Because here's, and this is off on a little tangent, the handicapable population is the biggest minority in the world. And especially when it comes to employment. So people tend to get a little aggravated when they have these roles that a handicapable person can fill, but they go and they give it to them.

an able-bodied person. And again, industries are correcting that. It's a slow process, but it's still something that happens today.

Dana Marie

Thank you for that tangent. That was a really important one. I think that one thing that when I specifically was working at the high school level and with older children and older students, we talked a lot about employment because you are obviously, you're right. There is some movement. There's a little bit of movement. I actually was just, I'm going to totally botch this. So everyone Google, please

for it. If I'm remembering correctly, I saw in the news last week that there is some new legislation around minimum wage payments for folks with disabilities and a new employment law legislation piece that that's being considered right now. But that's such a good point you brought up Hollywood. My sense, my guess is that it's happening in other industries as well.

James Norris

Yeah, it's across the board because, and I didn't actually hear about that, so I'm gonna have to go look that up, but the thing is, the problem that the handicapped population face is that they can go to school, they can get all the degrees, they can be just as qualified, if not more qualified, than the next person, but the problem that they run into is if they get that job, then it exceeds their hours for their social security, their insurance, whatever it is.

So they're stuck not working. And the thing is, like, obviously when we work, we feel good about ourselves because we're earning a wage and we're doing all the things. But what does that do for their mental health? Like not being able to work. Not only do they have a disability, that they have to get people to overlooking and, you know, overcome, but now they don't work, not simply because they don't want to, just because they're not afforded that option.

And if they are afforded that opportunity, then it's oftentimes way, way under their, their skill set, so to speak.

Dana Marie

100%.

Michelle

Yeah, because correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not even that many hours or that much income before it bottoms out and you start, they start taking it away on the other side, right?

James Norris

It exactly you're 100% right. And I mean, that's kind of one of the people that we helped out with one of the grants that we gave. It's something a little bit different, but it kind of falls in that same vein. She was told that, OK, because she's an amputee, you can get your new prosthetic, or you can get a new power, I mean, a new manual wheelchair because she's, wears her prosthetic 50% of the time, then she uses the wheelchair the other 50%

What I've been told, taking a prosthetic off is just like taking your shoes off at the end of the day. You need to do that. But she was told you can have one, but you can't have both. So you have to decide which one you want to have.

So it kind of falls in that same vein a little bit.

Michelle She Her

Yeah, that is so wild to me that like, oh, you can have one adaptive tool or the other, you know.

James Norris

I mean it's not like it's a coach bag or a Louis Vuitton bag.

Dana Marie

Right.

Michelle She Her

Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's wild. That's wild. Yeah, and the paperwork for everything is also not very straightforward. It's...

James Norris

No, you basically need somebody from NASA to fill it out because.

You know, and that's part of last year I spoke itself by Southwest out in Austin, Texas. And that's one of the things that we talked about was how do we get the, there's all this great equipment that's being brought out, right? So a couple problems that they're having is one, it's too expensive to push it to market and they're not getting enough funding to do that. Or once it does get pushed to market,

the price point is so high that the handy capable population can't afford or community can't afford it. And three, so it's just sitting there collecting dust and these people that have created the all this equipment aren't getting paid for their brains and bronze. So how is it that we mesh all three together so that everybody wins in the end?

Dana Marie

I think that one thing that we talk a lot about, not just on the podcast, but just in general in the work that we do, and we kind of brought this up earlier in this show is so much of this is just access to information, right? So much of what we're talking about is the fact that folks just don't know things exist, right? They don't know where to start. Michelle just brought up the paperwork piece. That's something that we navigate with parents and caregivers and families all the time. So often what they're struggling.

with is just navigating. Like you and I talked about earlier today, James, the red tape, right? They're just navigating red tape and they're navigating paperwork and they're trying to figure out, okay, I did this now, what's the next step? What's the next step? You're talking about this incredible adaptive equipment that is ready, able and available and impossible to get into the hands of the folks that actually need it. And so I wonder, I guess I'm thinking out loud, even when it comes to equipment, when it comes to fitness, to really all of the things we've been talking about today. A lot of folks just don't have access to this information.

James Norris

100% 100% and to feed off your guys point with the paperwork. It's almost set up to to be that it's so Strenuous and it's so much that people give up on it and they they're just like it's not worth it anymore Like what why why am I gonna do this and and that and that's the real shame of it all And that's why I applaud you guys for doing what you do, but then why handy capable fitness exists, you know, because you know we want to step in then we want to get rid of that red tape. We want to be like, hey, you know, mass health or whatever Blue Cross wheel shield says, you got to do this, this and this. No, we're going to step in, we're going to get you that wheelchair. We're going to get you that prosthetic just so you don't have to deal with it.

Dana Marie

So incredible. It's so amazing. I cannot believe that's already, we've been on for 40 minutes already and we're running out of time. I want to go back to feeling left out to kind of finish off. So what's your, this is part one of four, like I mentioned before, what's your dream for this, not just this book, but this series, you know, in the next couple of years as you push them out, what's your hope for this particular book and for the series that you're creating?

You know what? It's been super humbling up into this point, the feedback that we've gotten because like I said earlier, you know, I never set out to be like, okay, I'm going to write this book and this is what's going to happen. But the goal is to get it out there in the school systems, get educators like yourself to be aware of it and to use it as a tool for teaching kids, you know, and having it be in the curriculum of all of us.

the schools in Massachusetts. And again, not only for the handicapped individuals, but the parents and students and caregivers alike, so that everybody learns from it.

Dana Marie

Amazing. Well, we have a small but mighty following, a small but mighty growing following here. And we're gonna make sure that folks know about the book, Know About Handicapable Fitness, Know About James Norris. We're gonna make sure the people that we know know you too. James, thank you so, so much for being here. We appreciate you coming on the podcast today so, so much

Michelle

Yes.

James Norris

Thank you very much. I appreciate you guys.

Michelle

Thank you.

Dana Marie

I think we're probably gonna have to do another episode at some point because we did not get to nearly everything. It goes time flies when you're having fun. Well, we have a lot more to talk about, I'm sure, but really, really super appreciate you being here.

James Norris

Yeah.

We'll definitely do it

Thank you guys, really appreciate you guys.

Michelle She Her

Thank you so much.

Dana Marie

And thanks everyone for listening to the Empower to Advocate podcast. We will see you and talk to you next week. Bye bye.